Obama Vs. McCain

tylerdrummer · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:50 am Post subject:

007, thats not what i was saying,
the arguments, are getting a little worse and worse, anad the Voting, in November is important, but an argument, about it, when people already seem to have their minds made up and dont want to change, wasting that time is pointless, and shouldnt get out of control

007david · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject:

I actually would say the exact opposite is to be suggested.

Debate is not about bitterness or winning. Debate used to be the forum for entertainment, and more often than not breed discussion later on.

For example, there is an NPR series which is just a 2 hour debate. I listen to them when I'm out on long bike rides, and I love it. There was this one program about performance enhancing drugs in sports, and I went into listening to it having my mind made up (as both an athlete and a fan I'm against it). However, despite my strongly held convictions certain arguments were made that challenged my idea.

Debate and discussion is one of the most important things we can do, especially in matters of such importnace. And you're right, I strongly believe in my positions, but whether you believe what you believe is up to you. The points upon which I argue are ones that are not grounded in fact or are grounded philosophically difficult territory.

Styles and I disagree on at least two things, military and religion. However, we both respect each other's positions because we understand the basis and axioms behind them and realize that each position is upon them merited.

Of course the question I think that raises is, if the difference is mutually respected, what is debated? It is the quality of the differences. Which do I weigh as more important, my libertarian side of "do what you want" or my health side of "your cigarette smoke is acrid"? If I pick the latter, why? That is debate, that is discussion, and it is wholly important.
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tylerdrummer · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject:

congrats yay for you......but we dont need people getting pissed off at other people

styles2281 · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject:

styles2281 · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject:

007david · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject:

Exactly. I can't remember who said it (and if no one did I'm taking credit) but "debate is the art of being passionately stoic".

phantompong · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:51 am Post subject:

Exzilibus · Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:55 am Post subject:

drumminelsewhere · Moderator Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 3699

But isn't that what makes the country great? the idea that we can all have different views and not be penalized for it? Make no mistake there are certain view points that I will not accept as the right or "moral" thing to do. Now that doesn't mean that I have to force MY viewpoint on those people but they certainly don't have the right to force me to accept it as ok and normal.
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drumminelsewhere · Moderator Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 3699

Ok I haven't gotten time to make a real post until now so here it goes.

These are some of my thoughts on the whole subject. Feel free to disagree.
I don't care what it's about, I don't care if you support the war or not, if you want Government controlled healthcare or not. I'm not supporting anyone who wants to take away my freedoms and choices and make me do what they want. I don't want to be forced to pay for anyone's medical needs period. In fact if the government left me alone and I had more of my own money I'd give away just that much more of it. But because I get taxed out my butt and oil is so insanely high for whatever reason and I have to pay 140-200 a week in gas I don't have extra money to spend.

All the idea of big government accomplishes is control. "lets ban trans fat in NYC! for the good of people" are you kidding me? Let me make my own freaking choice, if I want to eat a greasy fatty hamburger that's my decision and no one else s. That's my whole big problem with liberalism at it's core. It always comes down to more control by the government.

I'm ALL for alternative fuels, I'm all for helping people in need (keyword, NEED, not people who mooch), I'm all for cleaner energy and cars that run off freaking air. And as a human being who has free will I don't want anyone imposing on my freedoms, that isn't their decision and it's not my job to control anyone else.

Also I know this isn't a big issue, but to me it is. I can't support anyone who believes that killing babies is ok. Yes I know it's a law but I know that McCain doesn't agree with it. (I'm not going to debate abortion in this thread, this is a personal view)
_________________
Not for fame or praise
Or to make noise with hate,
But to carry the torch in his mouth,
Strings create a flaming sound,
Thunderous beats crack the heart of our Savior
And His love pours out

www.myspace.com/redseaaffair

"All your sins, can be forgiven, all of this was always free, Jesus loves without condition, this is what, freedom means to me"

DrumHead · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject:

Zaphod Breeblebrox is my man. Less faces.
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DrumHead · Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject:

seriously....

in recent years I hear a lot... the only thing you should consider for president is foreign policy because that's really the only thing he has control over.

I agree that has been true recently.

But it shouldn't be. We need a leader. John Kennedy said we would go to the moon not because it was easy but because it was hard.

Right now we need someone to say we will stop importing oil. And use government resources to at least help do that. Electric vehicles is the ticket. No fuel dependency but ability to use whatever generating source available to charge up - ethanol, methanol, gas, wind, solar, geo, hydro, etc

that one issue is causing the wars and the economic issues domestically. I will admit that if my scenario came true many upheavals and strife would be caused worldwide but its tough love and something way past due.
_________________
What you got back home, little sister, to play your fuzzy warbles on? I bet you got, say, pitiful, portable picnic players. Come with uncle and hear all proper! Hear angels' trumpets and devils' trombones. You are invited!

http://www.myspace.com/kevinsplacespace
http://www.myspace.com/resonance08

drumminelsewhere · Moderator Joined: 27 May 2004 Posts: 3699

Once again though, electric cars aren't ready to take over the normal cars. The technology just isn't there at all....yet, once it is lets do it, but until then we gotta use what we got.
_________________
Not for fame or praise
Or to make noise with hate,
But to carry the torch in his mouth,
Strings create a flaming sound,
Thunderous beats crack the heart of our Savior
And His love pours out

www.myspace.com/redseaaffair

"All your sins, can be forgiven, all of this was always free, Jesus loves without condition, this is what, freedom means to me"

DrumHead · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:10 am Post subject:

tylerdrummer · Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:55 am Post subject:

i agree with DEW, even though the car will be there who says its going to last, i dont want to spend a bunch of cash for a car that we dont know what will happen to them in ten years. like alot of the hybrid cars, it was a great idea, they need to fix it a little bit because after a few years, that little battery dies, and you have to pay another 10 grand.
we need to fix what we have know before going into ugly little electric buzzing cars.