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gav
Grizzly Bear
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 730
Location: Hampshire, England
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 Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: |
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i love the intro to 6:00
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Rasta
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 591
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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I completely agree with what David is talking about. Artistic music is not the norm. Music that sells money is the norm. Artists do not have so much influence in the mass media industry. The record labels do. This is why pretty faces sell music these days.
Genres seem little more than romantisizing ideas. Art not being the most popular idea valued. If you rap, you better sing about gettin crunk in da club. If you sing country, you better sing with a twang, or sing about sweet potatoe pie. If you sing death metal, you better sing about corpses and mutilation. (slight sarcasm)
Ultimately, it our fault as consumers. We have snubbed the artists and praised the posers. We create a demand for poop. So they eagerly dish it out to anyone who is willing fork over cash. Why?
Big business caters to the lowest common denominator. It's the same reason why McDonalds is so popular. The food is absolute crap (though tasty and cheap). It is not good for you. Food is supposed to be good for you.
Along the same lines, music (in my opinion) should be about the art. Music for it's own sake.
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Rasta
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 591
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ONe of the problems I see, and may be related to David's comments, is that most of the bands are filled with mostly Amatuer drummers. We're not talking about people who are trying to be masters of their craft...just people trying to play a style and make money doing it. I think that's where most of this begins. |
Yes, I agree, music should definately be played by musicians.
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A groove is a terrible thing to waste! |
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phantompong
Lion
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 942
Location: on the side of the world
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| Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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I was just listening to Rush yesterday and I hadn't listened to them for a while, and I felt compelled to mention - Red Barchetta! Amazingly creative piece of work from the drumming perspective.
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If you don't like it, you can just *Golly Gee* off! - Keith Moon's last words
Drummers are subject to physical laws of nature. One of them states that if you drop a wing nut, it will roll under the bass drum. - Roy Burns |
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styles2281
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 6717
Location: Manchester, CT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| phantompong wrote: | | I was just listening to Rush yesterday and I hadn't listened to them for a while, and I felt compelled to mention - Red Barchetta! Amazingly creative piece of work from the drumming perspective. |
His cymbal work in that is outstanding...
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"I'm not dumb, I just have a command of thoroughly useless information" - Calvin of Bill Waterson's "Calvin and Hobbes" |
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styles2281
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 6717
Location: Manchester, CT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Rasta wrote: | | Quote: | | ONe of the problems I see, and may be related to David's comments, is that most of the bands are filled with mostly Amatuer drummers. We're not talking about people who are trying to be masters of their craft...just people trying to play a style and make money doing it. I think that's where most of this begins. |
Yes, I agree, music should definately be played by musicians. |
I should reiterate that I'm not AGAINST amatuers out playing music and making money. But, I think we should educate people (not just in music, but in ALL art) the difference between creating ART and creating a product packaged to sell. There's a big difference between composing for composing's sake and composing for money. (Though, it's funny that we hold classical music as the standard in that, when most of them composed for MONEY). I listen to Pop music as much as the next guy. I'll enjoy it as much as him too, but I know the difference between bands/people like Linkin Park, Britney Spears, Christina A., Lifehouse, Matchbox 20 compared to Rush, King Crimson, Yes, Tortoise, Medeski/Martin/Wood, and most free jazz. It would be nice if others could have the same education, as well.
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"I'm not dumb, I just have a command of thoroughly useless information" - Calvin of Bill Waterson's "Calvin and Hobbes" |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 957
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| styles2281 wrote: | | Rasta wrote: | | Quote: | | ONe of the problems I see, and may be related to David's comments, is that most of the bands are filled with mostly Amatuer drummers. We're not talking about people who are trying to be masters of their craft...just people trying to play a style and make money doing it. I think that's where most of this begins. |
Yes, I agree, music should definately be played by musicians. |
I should reiterate that I'm not AGAINST amatuers out playing music and making money. But, I think we should educate people (not just in music, but in ALL art) the difference between creating ART and creating a product packaged to sell. There's a big difference between composing for composing's sake and composing for money. (Though, it's funny that we hold classical music as the standard in that, when most of them composed for MONEY). I listen to Pop music as much as the next guy. I'll enjoy it as much as him too, but I know the difference between bands/people like Linkin Park, Britney Spears, Christina A., Lifehouse, Matchbox 20 compared to Rush, King Crimson, Yes, Tortoise, Medeski/Martin/Wood, and most free jazz. It would be nice if others could have the same education, as well. |
It comes down to how serious you are about the music. Some people simply listen to music for background noise, others casually, others to different degrees.
I personally am happy to say that alot of the crap on American radio is only that; crap on the radio. yes it does filter down into other gneres, into other countries, into different forms; but the bottom line is that I'd rather be (not saying I am there yet) the guy that can play anything, anytime and improvise just the same in any musical situation; but at the same time not hold it against, or look down upon others who simply don't have the musical aptitude, or have the drive to round themselves out musically.
I'm fine with those drummers who only rock out with their *Male Rooster* out, or people who only listen to RUSH  There is nothing wrong with having passion for something but leaving it there.
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"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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styles2281
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 6717
Location: Manchester, CT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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| drummerb0y25 wrote: |
or people who only listen to RUSH |
What, exactly, are you trying to say?
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"I'm not dumb, I just have a command of thoroughly useless information" - Calvin of Bill Waterson's "Calvin and Hobbes" |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 957
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: |
or people who only listen to RUSH |
What, exactly, are you trying to say? |
It was a joke, though apparently not funny enough for drumdogs standards. Alot of drummers rely a bit too much on Neil Peart though, for their licks, no?
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"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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styles2281
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 6717
Location: Manchester, CT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: |
or people who only listen to RUSH |
What, exactly, are you trying to say? |
It was a joke, though apparently not funny enough for drumdogs standards. Alot of drummers rely a bit too much on Neil Peart though, for their licks, no? |
I was joking in return, though, I guess it wasn't recieved.
Many of us, yes, do use Peart as the standard. though, not a conversation for here...
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"I'm not dumb, I just have a command of thoroughly useless information" - Calvin of Bill Waterson's "Calvin and Hobbes" |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 957
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: |
or people who only listen to RUSH |
What, exactly, are you trying to say? |
It was a joke, though apparently not funny enough for drumdogs standards. Alot of drummers rely a bit too much on Neil Peart though, for their licks, no? |
I was joking in return, though, I guess it wasn't recieved.
Many of us, yes, do use Peart as the standard. though, not a conversation for here... |
Why not? I believe it definitly pertains to this thread in general. We're talking about musical creativity, well-roundedness and etc.
Neil Peart was not typically a groove-orientated style at all, yet his songwriting and drumming is considered "creative" by different sources.
It is possible to be strong in one area and weak in another, yet achieve success both personally and publically. I think Neil definitly lived this, especially in his heyday.
_________________
"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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styles2281
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 6717
Location: Manchester, CT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: |
or people who only listen to RUSH |
What, exactly, are you trying to say? |
It was a joke, though apparently not funny enough for drumdogs standards. Alot of drummers rely a bit too much on Neil Peart though, for their licks, no? |
I was joking in return, though, I guess it wasn't recieved.
Many of us, yes, do use Peart as the standard. though, not a conversation for here... |
Why not? I believe it definitly pertains to this thread in general. We're talking about musical creativity, well-roundedness and etc.
Neil Peart was not typically a groove-orientated style at all, yet his songwriting and drumming is considered "creative" by different sources.
It is possible to be strong in one area and weak in another, yet achieve success both personally and publically. I think Neil definitly lived this, especially in his heyday. |
I think Peart DOES groove. Red Barchetta is a great example of it, as well. It really depends on how one wants to define 'groove.' Because he's not playing funk or jazz he doesn't groove? I don't quite get it.
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"I'm not dumb, I just have a command of thoroughly useless information" - Calvin of Bill Waterson's "Calvin and Hobbes" |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 957
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: |
or people who only listen to RUSH |
What, exactly, are you trying to say? |
It was a joke, though apparently not funny enough for drumdogs standards. Alot of drummers rely a bit too much on Neil Peart though, for their licks, no? |
I was joking in return, though, I guess it wasn't recieved.
Many of us, yes, do use Peart as the standard. though, not a conversation for here... |
Why not? I believe it definitly pertains to this thread in general. We're talking about musical creativity, well-roundedness and etc.
Neil Peart was not typically a groove-orientated style at all, yet his songwriting and drumming is considered "creative" by different sources.
It is possible to be strong in one area and weak in another, yet achieve success both personally and publically. I think Neil definitly lived this, especially in his heyday. |
I think Peart DOES groove. Red Barchetta is a great example of it, as well. It really depends on how one wants to define 'groove.' Because he's not playing funk or jazz he doesn't groove? I don't quite get it. |
He had groove, but it wasn't very colorful.....just my opinion. Yes, he developed more through his career. Rush's music had movements, melodies, and etc. I appreciate what they accomplished. You should know the basics of art if you're even posting in this thread. There's alot to be made of what Rush has done and what can be done ( potential energy yet to be contributed)
my girlfriends an art teacher with a BA, and a former drummer, should I ask for her opinion on Neils artistic foundation and contributions? 
_________________
"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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styles2281
Moderator
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 6717
Location: Manchester, CT
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: | | styles2281 wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: |
or people who only listen to RUSH |
What, exactly, are you trying to say? |
It was a joke, though apparently not funny enough for drumdogs standards. Alot of drummers rely a bit too much on Neil Peart though, for their licks, no? |
I was joking in return, though, I guess it wasn't recieved.
Many of us, yes, do use Peart as the standard. though, not a conversation for here... |
Why not? I believe it definitly pertains to this thread in general. We're talking about musical creativity, well-roundedness and etc.
Neil Peart was not typically a groove-orientated style at all, yet his songwriting and drumming is considered "creative" by different sources.
It is possible to be strong in one area and weak in another, yet achieve success both personally and publically. I think Neil definitly lived this, especially in his heyday. |
I think Peart DOES groove. Red Barchetta is a great example of it, as well. It really depends on how one wants to define 'groove.' Because he's not playing funk or jazz he doesn't groove? I don't quite get it. |
He had groove, but it wasn't very colorful.....just my opinion. Yes, he developed more through his career. Rush's music had movements, melodies, and etc. I appreciate what they accomplished. You should know the basics of art if you're even posting in this thread. There's alot to be made of what Rush has done and what can be done ( potential energy yet to be contributed)
my girlfriends an art teacher with a BA, and a former drummer, should I ask for her opinion on Neils artistic foundation and contributions? |
You can...I'm not sure it has any more value than anyone else's opinion. (with all due respect to your girlfriend!)
_________________
"I'm not dumb, I just have a command of thoroughly useless information" - Calvin of Bill Waterson's "Calvin and Hobbes" |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 957
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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This is not a thread to talk about artistic influence in ones musical contributions. With all due respect, I sincerely apologize.
_________________
"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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