Help with my bass drum foot...

Jason Pick · Newbie Alert Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 3

Can anyone help me...

I've been drumming for a couple of years now, and just can't seem to improve the control and speed of my bass drum past basic patterns.

I can play fairly ok, if i pivot on my heel, but then i lack power and can hardly be heard over the band ( guitars). If i go up onto the ball of my foot, i can get power, but lose control and speed for those vital "double" beats.

Can anyone give me tips for technique, practice, posture - anything! I seem to have hit a wall..

Thanks,
Jason

Fonz38 · Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 12:24 pm Post subject:

Hey there jason
I've been playing for 6 years now I started when I was 11 and I've never really had trouble with the bass, probaly because I've been listing to metal my whole life and metal needs the bass. However I couldn't hit double strokes on the bass till 2 years ago, not because I couldn't its just a mental block. Try playing sixteenth notes and throwing in the double strokes, it'll flow out alot easier. Than when you put it back to eith notes its a big difference. As to the posisting of the foot, personaly i play heel up but i keep my heel low and close to the pedel without touching it. and i've never had a gutarist play over me, I hope this makes sense and can help you out.
_________________
~Fonz~

Jason Pick · Newbie Alert Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 3

Fonz,

Thanks for the tip - i'll try it with 16ths.

Cheers,
Jason

ulank · Tadpole Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 22

Any tips for avoiding fatique in the leg/foot over the course of a set. I notice my kick sounds strong and crisp at the start of the set, but as I go on, it becomes more of a struggle. For one, I think it's just my crappy double bass pedal that has not felt "right" no matter how it's tweaked. The rest seems to lie in my technique AND how high/low, close/far I'm sitting. What's the "angle" of your folks' thighs when your sitting. My drummer used to sit up high so the leg is straighter, but I've recently been sitting lower so my thigh is roughly parallel to the floor. I seem to get more power from this, but am I also adding to my fatigue??

Oh - I play heel up mostly.

Fonz38 · Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 12:34 pm Post subject:

well I've never really had cramps or fatique in my legs, and it has nothing to do with the pedel. People always think if you go out and buy a 300$ pedel you will be better. If you go out and buy a 300$ pedel all you've done is just lost your only excuse for not being able to do what the pros do. But it could be a worn down spring, or stuff like that, those would really affect your pedel.

with that in mind, I like to sit as low as possible and I play mostly with my ankels but I use a motion similar to riding a bike. Push down extend the knee and than retract my knee. I also have my footboard as high as it will go.

the most important part to building your indurance is playing even when you can't. Just making the mental effort will help over time. When I first got my double kick i was having trouble with balance and speed, but there is a gwar song "immortal corruptor" with lots of base that i really wanted to learn. and even thou I couldn't play that fast, or even stay in time while I was using my double kick I kept trying to play along with it, and honestly like a week or so later I had it down. Just keep trying mentaly even if your doing it wrong
_________________
~Fonz~

Saurencaerthai · King Kong Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 2609

ulank:
I'm just curious, how long have you been playing double pedal? That may play in to how I answer your question.

ulank · Tadpole Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 22

I've pretty much been playing double bass from day one (roughly 5 years ago, I guess?). My double bass chops are actually pretty good - I'm not uber-fast, but rock steady at a moderate tempo. In fact, my drummer in my other band is "upset" with me because I can play DB and he can't. I've always had a pretty good knack for it, but at the same time, until I was in a band, I never sat back there for more than 15 minutes at a time. In that span though, I could easily lock in on a moderate double-bass roll and play completely free-form on the cymbals and toms without losing the groove in the kick.
Ironically, when I started playing in the band is when I started having trouble with fatigue and just basically "losing it." Granted, I'm doing a lot more quick single kick stuff with this band than I ever did before, but I just know something with my form doesn't feel comfortable like it did before I started playing in the band.
I know/agree that good technique is the key rather than the gear, but I do think I could get some help from a pedal that actually has a response.

Could it just be that I'm playing too hard/exerting too much effort on the kit? The music is driving so I like to push the kick a bit. And what's the advantage of a flatter footboard vs. a more angled one? Any other setup input (i.e. beater angle, etc.)

Thanks guys!

Saurencaerthai · King Kong Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 2609

Well, to start off, you have quite a number of years on me in terms of doublekick. I just bought my pedal just under a year ago and only now are my chops an near-reasonable levels.

First off, double pedals are great simulators for two bass drums, but when you come down to it, nothing beats having two. No matter what engineering can be done, there will always be some lag in the left foot which must be made up for in the playing.

For technique, there is no golden solution to improving your playing. Alot of heels-up people like to sit lower, with their theighs around paralel to the floor, but I play both heels up and down, often interchanging, and I prefer to sit a bit higher. The key to finding the best way lies in exparimentation. Examine every and any factor ranging from your distance the pedals are apart, to spring tensions, throne height, to miniscule little details in your pedal technique. Try everything you can, and you may find something that works.

By nature, usually one's non-dominent foot is the weaker one when drumming. I think that it is very well possible that over-exertion while playing can tire your limbs out quicker.
Also: are your legs tense when you play? That could be a great source of trouble if that is so.

ulank · Tadpole Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 22

Thanks for the input...my legs are usually loose at the start of the set but I do tense up later on and it's as if I *can't* loosen up after this even if I try...I try to stretch before and during the set whenever possible as well.

Would you have any input/advice on particular adjustments to a kick pedal. i.e. what does lowering/raising the footboard typical do? How about beater angle etc? The drums are on carpet and I'm noticing the pedal may not be as "level" as it should be. I had to do some tweeking a few months ago just to keep the spring from touching the head Shocked

when I played. I guess I'll look into this moe as well.

I'm beginning to think it's a combination of an unresponsive pedal and me trying to compensate for that, coupled with over-exertion. Thanks for the advice. I agree experimentation is the best, but I really have no clue how/where to adjust a pedal and what the purpose of some of these adjustments is.

Actually, last night, I think I discovered I may be sitting too much on top of the set. I moved the snare back and sat back a little further and was able to find the "sweet spot" better, but I only played for about 5-10 minutes. Perhaps, sitting over the pedal too much was requiring me to physically hold my leg up too much to avoid coming down on the pedal. Sorry if it sounds like I'm thinking out loud Surprised

- this is all helpful stuff. Thanks.

Saurencaerthai · King Kong Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 2609

What pedal are you using currently?

If you're tensing up, chances are you're overdoing it. First, work on your endurance at graduated intervals. Start at a slower, more comfortable speed, and just play 16ths at that tempo for like five minutes, than up the tempo by 5 or 10 bpm depending on how you feel and repeat for five minute. If you hit a point where you begin to tense up, stop and take the tempo down.

Doublekick can be very tiring over long periods of time, so endurance is key.

ulank · Tadpole Joined: 05 Mar 2003 Posts: 22

A gibralter prowler. It's not "too" bad of a pedal, but one thing that gets me is the pedal on the kick has no base on it. Just the heel pad and some feet right under the kick drum with some shoddy wirey junk holding it together. It makes it quite difficult to put this thing level and it can move a lot when playing. I'm going to take it apart tonite, clean it up, tighten it up and set it up and see if I can make something of it (though an experienced drummer friend did this not too long ago and it already started blowing springs and washers off of it so....)

Thanks for the 1/16th advice. Between drums and guitar I will become quite friendly with the 'nome!! Laughing

Saurencaerthai · King Kong Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 2609

Well, I personally have found that the floor board makes a major difference in the pedal. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it adds an essance of stability to playing it.
Honestly, I have played Gibralters and was not impressed in the least. One major complaint I've heard from Gibralter players is that the springs are way to heavy for the player's good.
I think that an upgrade, even to an Iron Cobra Jr. pedal is worthwhile.

Also, I have too, noticed that there is a difference in how a pedal performs when on carpet as opposed to a hard floor. Usually it becomes easier to play on a hard surface, I've found.

Borrelli · Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2003 10:09 pm Post subject:

I actually just finished playing double bass, and I've been doing tweaks here and there to the pedal. I'm trying to play Slayer's "Reining Blood", but it seems that the fronts of my calves seem to tire out more quickly with heels down. If I play heels up, the top front of my thighs tire out, then I have to stop. For me, if I'm going to play double bass, I'll do it heels up, for the power. For single bass, heel (s) down. I have the Iron Cobra Powerglide, and I love all the little tweaks you can do to it. The problem is finding the right tweak so that it feels the best. But repetion, and endurance building is the ultimate key to double bass I believe. The most expensive pedal in the world will only play good if the actual drummer has the skill to make them sound like anything.