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INFails
Tadpole
Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Dallas, Texas
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 Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject: Need serious help with double stroke rolls |
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I've been drumming 6 weeks.
On the Vic Firth page Im up to diamond on single stroke roll and Platinum on my paradiddles.
For some reason though I struggle just trying to finish bronze on double stroke rolls. It has to be something in my technique. The only way I could drum as fast as the exercise would to be if I did a buzz and let the stick bounce but that's not what they are doing in the video (it sounds different).
For me to be so horrible at it compared to where I am with other rudiments it has to be more than speed, my technique must be all wrong.
Help?
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The nail that sticks out gets pounded.
Silent skins will get pounded.
The beer in the fridge will get pounded.
God it feels good to be the hammer. |
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Rasta
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've been drumming 6 weeks. |
Welcome to the fold.
| Quote: | | On the Vic Firth page Im up to diamond on single stroke roll and Platinum on my paradiddles. |
I'm not sure what that means, but it sounds good.
| Quote: | | For some reason though I struggle just trying to finish bronze on double stroke rolls. It has to be something in my technique. |
You are right.
| Quote: | | The only way I could drum as fast as the exercise would to be if I did a buzz and let the stick bounce but that's not what they are doing in the video (it sounds different). |
This is really important, so you want to be sure to have proper technique down before you develope bad habits then have to relearn to compensate (like I did).
For double strokes, (singles AND buzz for that matter) really take your time to get the proper technique down. Don't try to go as fast as you can right away. Speed will come AFTER technique. Your PRIMARY concern (in my opinion) is smooth consistent strokes. It can be mind numbingly boring at first, but is really important to develope a solid foundation. Try playing as SLOW AS POSSIBLE at first, only increasing speed when you can play smooth consistent strokes.
Pay attention to the grip of each hand, make sure that both hands are doing the same motion. Ensure that you are using your fingers to do the strokes instead of your wrist. This is really important for many reasons.
1. You economize motion, thus energy, which alows you to (eventualy) play faster and longer.
2. Playing with your writsts, you run the risk of developing carpel tunnel, or getting nerve damage (later down the road).
3. You develpe greater control which allows you to be more percise and have a larger dynamical range.
If you can't afford a personal teacher (which is best) then do what you are doing now and find videos or online instruction. Watching and listeng to good drummers is the next best thing to teaching.
So back to doubles, the stick is supposed to bounce on this stroke, the trick is being compfortible in controlling the bounce. It is supposed to bounce twice in contrast to the buzz (or multiple bounce) stroke. If you notice on the Vic Firth sheet, the second stroke (in the double) is accented. The only way to do this is with the proper technique.
I suggest you also look at this site: http://www.drummingweb.com/
It has a lot of material, and is completely free.
Ask lots of questions, and always practise to a metronome.
I hope I answered your question.
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A groove is a terrible thing to waste!  |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 956
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree with the previous post.\
IMO, getting double strokes (even ones) up to speed is something that my instructor as a child mentioned to me.
You want to practice by (slowly) performing the roll, but [i]accenting[/i] the second stroke on each hand. (not too strong, but solidly).
rR lL rR lL
At this point, once you've got the hang of that SLOWLY, you want to begin to push with the hand downward on the first stroke (free stroke) and pull back to get a free and easy second stroke.
Stroke (1)Push down with your hand, and let the stick come back.
Stroke (2)loosely, keeping all fingers on stick, pull hand/wrist back but fingers should pull the stick for a second accented stroke.
All of this will take between a few weeks or months to get down real good. But it's the most efficient way I know of to start to develop a solid, dynamic double stroke roll. Go slowly and feel every thing out.
Have fun!
_________________
"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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Rasta
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I disagree with the previous post.\
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Which part do you disagree with? I can't tell by the content you've posted. Seems pretty simular to what I said.
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A groove is a terrible thing to waste! |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 956
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Rasta wrote: | | Quote: | I disagree with the previous post.\
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Which part do you disagree with? I can't tell by the content you've posted. Seems pretty simular to what I said. |
Not using your wrists? That would be very awkward and a IMO a bad habit to boot! forearms, wrists, hands and fingers should all be used together to master the double stroke roll. Yes it is important to isolate muscles to maximize the workout, but to only use your fingers on a double stroke roll? Maybe in French grip position...
Another thing Rasta; I didn't read where you described HOW the "proper technique" should be excecuted, either. There's loads of techniques and methods of course, and no one should be married to on sole method, either...you may know this.
"Ensure that you are using your fingers to do the strokes instead of your wrist. This is really important for many reasons."
_________________
"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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Rasta
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Not using your wrists? That would be very awkward and a IMO a bad habit to boot! forearms, wrists, hands and fingers should all be used together to master the double stroke roll. Yes it is important to isolate muscles to maximize the workout, but to only use your fingers on a double stroke roll? Maybe in French grip position... |
Good point. I didn't mean to imply to never use your wrists at all. That was awkwardly worded. Just meaning that if he is having trouble with doubles, most likely he is using too much wrist, and needs to focus on using the fingers to execute a proper bounce. Thanks for clairifying. 
| Quote: | | Another thing Rasta; I didn't read where you described HOW the "proper technique" should be excecuted, either. There's loads of techniques and methods of course, and no one should be married to on sole method, either...you may know this. |
Yes, I did not describe matched grip, traditional grip, or french grip, because everyone is different, and should experiment on their own. Yes I am aware that there are many techniques. All of the techniques utilize the fingers a great deal to execute properly.
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A groove is a terrible thing to waste! |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 956
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Rasta wrote: | | Quote: | | Not using your wrists? That would be very awkward and a IMO a bad habit to boot! forearms, wrists, hands and fingers should all be used together to master the double stroke roll. Yes it is important to isolate muscles to maximize the workout, but to only use your fingers on a double stroke roll? Maybe in French grip position... |
Good point. I didn't mean to imply to never use your wrists at all. That was awkwardly worded. Just meaning that if he is having trouble with doubles, most likely he is using too much wrist, and needs to focus on using the fingers to execute a proper bounce. Thanks for clairifying.
| Quote: | | Another thing Rasta; I didn't read where you described HOW the "proper technique" should be excecuted, either. There's loads of techniques and methods of course, and no one should be married to on sole method, either...you may know this. |
Yes, I did not describe matched grip, traditional grip, or french grip, because everyone is different, and should experiment on their own. Yes I am aware that there are many techniques. All of the techniques utilize the fingers a great deal to execute properly. |
Cool, I figured that's what you were going for but just wanted to clarify that to the newer guys/gals that might come along and read this. right on !
_________________
"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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Rasta
Fierce Wolf
Joined: 11 Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| drummerb0y25 wrote: | | Rasta wrote: | | Quote: | | Not using your wrists? That would be very awkward and a IMO a bad habit to boot! forearms, wrists, hands and fingers should all be used together to master the double stroke roll. Yes it is important to isolate muscles to maximize the workout, but to only use your fingers on a double stroke roll? Maybe in French grip position... |
Good point. I didn't mean to imply to never use your wrists at all. That was awkwardly worded. Just meaning that if he is having trouble with doubles, most likely he is using too much wrist, and needs to focus on using the fingers to execute a proper bounce. Thanks for clairifying.
| Quote: | | Another thing Rasta; I didn't read where you described HOW the "proper technique" should be excecuted, either. There's loads of techniques and methods of course, and no one should be married to on sole method, either...you may know this. |
Yes, I did not describe matched grip, traditional grip, or french grip, because everyone is different, and should experiment on their own. Yes I am aware that there are many techniques. All of the techniques utilize the fingers a great deal to execute properly. |
Cool, I figured that's what you were going for but just wanted to clarify that to the newer guys/gals that might come along and read this. right on ! |
Appreciate it man. It was confusing.
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A groove is a terrible thing to waste! |
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drummerb0y25
Big Lion
Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 956
Location: ^^ ..rofl
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Rasta wrote: | | drummerb0y25 wrote: | | Rasta wrote: | | Quote: | | Not using your wrists? That would be very awkward and a IMO a bad habit to boot! forearms, wrists, hands and fingers should all be used together to master the double stroke roll. Yes it is important to isolate muscles to maximize the workout, but to only use your fingers on a double stroke roll? Maybe in French grip position... |
Good point. I didn't mean to imply to never use your wrists at all. That was awkwardly worded. Just meaning that if he is having trouble with doubles, most likely he is using too much wrist, and needs to focus on using the fingers to execute a proper bounce. Thanks for clairifying.
| Quote: | | Another thing Rasta; I didn't read where you described HOW the "proper technique" should be excecuted, either. There's loads of techniques and methods of course, and no one should be married to on sole method, either...you may know this. |
Yes, I did not describe matched grip, traditional grip, or french grip, because everyone is different, and should experiment on their own. Yes I am aware that there are many techniques. All of the techniques utilize the fingers a great deal to execute properly. |
Cool, I figured that's what you were going for but just wanted to clarify that to the newer guys/gals that might come along and read this. right on ! |
Appreciate it man. It was confusing. |
All that said- then there's probably a few sickos in the crowd that can destroy and embarrass my double stroke rolls with just his finger strokes  God Bless 'em
_________________
"The more control you have of the instrument, the more confidence you will get and the more you will be able to express your ideas; Technique is only good if you can use it musically." -J.M. |
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