Very frustrated with Double-Bass..

The Crimson King

Hi, I'm new to this forum, so I thought I'd start with this problem I've been having recently, concerning double-bass.

I've been a drummer for about 7 years, and 6 of those years I played with a single pedal. When I finally got my double-bass pedals (DW 5000) I was very excited and ready to learn. I went through all of the normal problems, and eventually arose with a steady and sturdy slow tempo "walk". As months past I grew in speed, not extremely fast, but "Pantera" fast. I was like this for quite a while, untill a few months ago when my legs wern't always doing what I asked them. I would try and do some simple double-bass work, just a steady speed, and my legs would try to rush ahead and play too fast but I can't play VERY fast so it wouldn't sound like much. This happens no matter what now, no matter what tempo or situation. I've been reduced to simple flams with my pedals. I can't figure out why my legs do this. I have to (all of a sudden) really consentrate on what my legs are doing otherwise my accuracy fluctuates.
These problems came out of nowhere. I can't explain to myself why. I think it might be some strength issues as far as my ankles, calfs, and upper leg muscles.

Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.
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jane DOE · Newbie Alert Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 1

I have exactly the same problem, and no matter how much i practice i cant seem to get any more dialed. Somedays I just want to hack my legs off with a rusty fork.

Drummin_Dan · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject:

I found that when I actually work on something, I realise how crappy it was before I started working on it, and then when I realise how bad I suck, it was better then it was before anyways Very Happy

. Once your ears get accustomed, you start picking up things you hadn't before. That's part of learning. It may seem really good, but then maybe you record yourself, and go back, and it's just trash.

The Crimson King · Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2004 9:38 pm Post subject:

perhaps wrong topic? I don't know if that has anything to do with what I had asked as for help. But thanks for the advice I suppose.
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Saurencaerthai · King Kong Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Posts: 2609

It does take a bit of concentration, but here are a few things I can think of: First, practice rudiments with your feet, specificly paradiddles and their variants. When I say practice, though, I don't mean kicking back (no pun intended) and chugging for an hour. Seriously check it by playing what you are playing with your feet on your snare, since your hands are most likely more accurate.

As well, play phrases on your snare and try duplicating them on your kick, both call and response (snare, than feet) and in unison (at the same time, making sure they line up perfectly.)

Otherwise, keep practicing and making sure it's really solid. Metronome per usual. Make sure that your limbs are working interdependantly, not independantly!

Mutetalkinghead · Pit Bull Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 351

look at your technique, figure out what muscles your using that you dont need to be. relax take a deep breath, then try doing them again. (do you play heel up or heel down?) try playing heel up really troubleshoot your own technique.

Ox · Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:30 am Post subject:

There's a book called "The Encyclopedia of Double Bass Drumming", I've seen it on musiciansfriend, and music123 website.

I've been meaning to check this book out, all I hear is rave reviews about it. However I'm currently studying Marco Minneman's "Extreme Interdependence" book, which has helped out alot with control of my weak foot (left side). This book does alot of doubles, reverse doubles, inverted doubles, single paradiddles, double paradiddles, all while you doing a completely different pattern with your hands.

Maybe this could be a possible direction you might want to take?

Satori · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 401

I've said this many times before and I'll say it again:

I suck at double bass really really really badly. I can't get any speed going at all. So I starting doing the quad roll (doubles with each foot) and now I can easily reach speeds that I never thought I'd be able to reach (16th notes at 208 bpm), and it's easy, always in very solid time, never lagging or rushed, and I can do this anytime, start and stop on a dime, and I never break a sweat while doing it.

To me, doubles are far easier than singles. It was harder at first to learn, but once I started getting it it was easier than singles. So I stand by my claim that doing doubles (for speed) is a heck of a lot easier than singles. It takes far less control since your legs only move at half the speed and you can use your whole leg instead of just snapping your ankle like would be require with singles.

The quad roll was a huge boost for me. Maybe you can try it out and see how it feels. It takes at least a week or 2 of solid practice to start getting it though, guaranteed the first time you try it you won't be able to do it at all and you'll assume it's almost impossible or not worth the effort, but that's kinda misleading, it's way eaiser than it seems. If you can already do a double stroke (heel-toe) with your main bass foot then your half way there already.

I'm going to have a second bass drum very soon, and at that time I'm hoping to break my 16th notes where quarter note = 208 bpm record, cuz slave pedals, in my opinion, are too slow to keep up with double strokes at higher speeds. At least my iron cobra seems to be anyway, most definitely.

Have fun!
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Satori · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 401

Ox · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:14 pm Post subject:

It was the warm up exercises that were giving me problems for awhile, because it was forcing you to break old habits (if you had any). I'm still in the beginning of the patterns/melodies.

But I often go back to the warm up exercises and have since bumped up the metronome from standard 120 bpm to 190-200 bpm going through all the exercises. In reality doing all those exercises in quarter notes sounds very simple, but once you try them you learn for yourself. It's not easy.

The difference I have also noticed was the simple speed and control which I can do doubles now with my feet (nothing fast, but a difference in my playing). It has become very clean, and consistent.

I still plan looking into that "Encyclopedia of Double Bass Drumming" book, but it's going to be awhile.

Satori · Rabid Pit Bull Joined: 27 Jun 2003 Posts: 401

jeepers, you are playing the exercises 190-200? Pretty fast dude!

I know exactly what you mean when you talk about the benefits of those exercises. Clean and consistent, yep. Cool.
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Real music isn't written, it's disovered, and the musician is only the conduit through which it flows.

TheDrumSetKingHimself · Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:

what drummer on drummerworld plays 190-200?
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NoirDeath · Little Hamster Joined: 09 Feb 2004 Posts: 75

i play around 250ish on average. the slower stuff is more around 190